Platform Sutra – Talk 3
March 27, 1987 Dharma Talk by Dainin Katagiri Roshi
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Summary
Katagiri Roshi continues his commentary on Chapter 2 of the Platform Sutra, further discussing the meaning of the terms maha, prajna and paramita. He discusses the relation of the sutra to the three kinds of emptiness, how life and death and nirvana are the same, kanno-doko or spiritual communion between you and the universe, and transforming the three poisons into the Precepts.
Transcript
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0:00
Katagiri Roshi: […] Do you have some questions you want to discuss, from what we have studied so far?
Last time we studied the meaning of ‘Maha’. So from page 91 to 93, maha is considered in terms of three kinds of emptiness: emptiness of mark, emptiness of dharma, emptiness of emptiness.
Emptiness of mark: In Sanskrit we say lakshana shunyata. Lakshana means expressing indirectly. […] Emptiness of mark, or emptiness of appearance.
Everything has its own characteristic: tape recorder has its own characteristic, which is completely different from other marks. But, whatever kind of thing [it is], the characteristics are based on emptiness. So we say lakshana shunyata: “emptiness of mark.”
From this point, everything in this world of mark or appearance, there are no boundaries. Completely vast; this is the meaning of maha.
In terms of the emptiness of dharma, dharma shunyata, everything exists within the emptiness. So from this point, there is nothing to attach.
This is the meaning of the maha. So no form, which means no boundary, boundlessness. No form of circle. Zen always expresses the universe with a circle – but no circle, no form of circle. This is vast[ness], or boundlessness.
And in terms of dharma shunyata, no attachment to emptiness. So you have to be free from emptiness, if you listen to the teaching of emptiness. Because emptiness is exactly emptiness, but if you understand emptiness, we are caught by the concept of emptiness – this is automatically [what] we do. So, this is dharma shunyata; this is the meaning of the maha in terms of shunyata shunyata, emptiness of emptiness.
I think this is, how can I say it… in this sutra I think emptiness of emptiness means self-nature contains myriad dharmas. […] In space, space has myriad, myriad dharmas: simultaneously all sentient beings exist in peace and harmony. That is the meaning of emptiness, so you cannot attach to the ego, self-centeredness. Always maha means completely the vast space [where] myriad, myriad dharmas exchange their own positions with each-other very smoothly, becoming one. […] So very subtle, wondrous function among all sentient beings: that is the meaning of maha.
7:16
Then “Prajna”… Page 94: […]
“Good Knowing Advisors, all Prajna wisdom is produced from one’s own nature; it does not enter from the outside. Using the intellect correctly is called the natural function of one’s true nature. One truth is all truth. The mind has the capacity for great things, and is not meant for practicing petty ways. Do not talk about emptiness with your mouth all day and in your mind fail to cultivate the conduct that you talk of. That would be like a common person calling himself the king of a country, which cannot be. People like that are not my disciples.”
(From The Sixth Patriarch’s Dharma Jewel Platform Sutra, published and translated by the Buddhist Text Translation Society.)
This paragraph [talks about] the general meaning of prajna, wisdom.
The meaning of wisdom [is] characterized by two meanings.
One is self-functioning of the true nature. So wisdom means the self-functioning of the true nature, the original ultimate nature of existence.
So prajna is not only human knowledge but prajna is knowledge open to all living beings, because wisdom is the self-functioning of the ultimate nature of existence. This is called wisdom, because it is a kind of principle, but [it is] not only the principle but also it is functioning, helping all sentient beings. That’s why it is called sometimes dharma. That dharma is that which supports or upholds [or] maintains all living beings.
So, that is characteristic of [the] ultimate nature of existence. So […] the principle is simultaneously wisdom, because it is that which we can realize. So the truth is the truth as a principle, but also as wisdom, because [it] helps all living beings.
So that is one.
The other one is: one truth is all truth. If […] you learn the self, [it] is to learn the world. If you learn the sublimity of human life, it is simultaneously to learn the sublimity of the trees, and the birds, all living beings. The one truth is all truth. Because it is universal; wisdom is characterized by maha: vastness, boundlessness.
So from this point, prajna doesn’t mean to understand [something] intellectually or philosophically, it is something you have to practice. So that’s why it says here, “Do not talk about emptiness with your mouth all day and in your mind fail to cultivate the conduct that you talk of.” We have to put it into practice, every day. If you don’t do it, that will be “like a common person calling himself the king of a country, which cannot be.”
“People like that are not my disciples.” That “not my disciples” [is not that they] are not human beings – they are human beings, but they don’t behave as human beings. That [is the meaning of] “people like that are not by disciples.”
14:29
So next,
“Good Knowing Advisors, what is meant by ‘Prajna?’ Prajna in our language means wisdom. Everywhere and at all times, in thought after thought, remain undeluded and practice wisdom constantly; that is Prajna conduct.
So the meaning of prajna: “Prajna in our language means wisdom.”
“Everywhere and at all times, in thought after thought, …” I think thought occurs in certain circumstances, times, places. So from this point, whatever you may be, whatever you do, that is “everywhere and at all times.” Under all circumstances, not under particular circumstances [but] under all circumstances, wisdom remains undeluded, and practice wisdom constantly. This is prajna; prajna remains undeluded, undefiled; very pure and clean. “And practice wisdom [constantly],” because it is always within us.
If you look at your body, I think you can know [what wisdom is]. You can know how wondrous the human body is. You cannot hate your human body. Regardless of whether you are weak or strong, you should appreciate the presence of your human body, because the myriad cells [and] nerves [are] functioning smoothly, beyond your speculation. Interconnected, interpenetrated: past, present, and future, and air, sky, stars, all the universe. This is your body. If you look at your body, you will really feel this.
That wondrous function of your body is called wisdom. Because it’s not a principle, it’s not a philosophical structure of your human body. No matter how long you explain your human body, it is not right. So practically, you have to take best care of human body.
So, that is “practice wisdom constantly.” Your body is always practicing wisdom. That is prajna conduct: it means that is the activity of prajna, wisdom.
18:50
“Prajna is cut off by a single deluded thought.
Because prajna is functioning constantly, beyond human speculation, before the vibration of your consciousness. This is prajna, so prajna is cut off by a single deluded thought. So usual, common people don’t realize the functioning of the wisdom, because they constantly depend on the human world fabricated by the vibration of human consciousness. That’s why here it says, “Prajna is cut off by a single deluded thought.”
“By one wise thought, Prajna is produced.
In other words, you can cultivate, nurture the wisdom. By one wise person.
In terms of threefold emptiness, the first one is emptiness of form. Prajna is considered in terms of emptiness of mark. At that time, prajna is characterized by vastness, no boundary, boundlessness. So from this point, [there are] no frames [of] each-other. Prajna doesn’t have any frames, partitions, so it’s vast. That’s why prajna remains undeluded “and practice wisdom constantly.”
And in terms of emptiness of dharma, prajna is based on emptiness. So from this point, in order to realize prajna, you have to practice prajna beyond prajna. We say “wisdom beyond wisdom” every morning, all the time we say “wisdom beyond wisdom.” You cannot attach to the emptiness which you have realized. So you have to go beyond emptiness if you really have arrived, because it is emptiness.
That’s why “the wise person can produce prajna”: because he can have capacity enough to see minute vibration of human consciousness by which prajna is cut off.
So that is [what it says here]. And next,
“Worldly men, deluded and confused, do not see Prajna. They speak of it with their mouths, but their minds are always deluded.
So they can talk. Well, we can talk prajna, we can talk compassion, we can talk Buddha’s teaching, but there are many people who don’t practice. But I think the words people [say] about some aspect of Buddha’s teaching are also important, but are not perfect. So we should respect the [talking] in language, even though they don’t practice it. But it is not perfect.
So [a] wise person respects language, words, even though people don’t practice it. A wise person respects both language and [the] person.
“But their minds are always deluded…”
“They constantly say of themselves, ‘I cultivate Prajna!’ and though they continually speak of emptiness, they are unaware of true emptiness. Prajna, without form or mark, is just the wisdom mind. If thus explained, just this is Prajna wisdom.”
Okay?
So I think wisdom must be something we should practice.
[Before we go to the] next page, do you have questions about the meaning of prajna?
Question: When it says, “prajna is cut off,” I would have thought prajna goes on.
Katagiri Roshi: Mm-hmm, yes, prajna is going constantly.
Same person: And so in what sense is it cut off?
Katagiri Roshi: Because it is with you, but it doesn’t work with your everyday life. It’s with you, but it doesn’t work. It doesn’t appear. Just like a diamond, [a] wild, natural diamond.
The same applies to your everyday life. I think you have many, many things at your house: furniture, and closets, and toilet space, pictures on the wall, many things. But I think they are always functioning – otherwise, the picture on the wall doesn’t make sense, the space of the house doesn’t make sense. So you should understand everything in terms of the functioning of existence. But usually we understand everything in terms of concept.
So that’s why one of the Buddha’s teachings is called interdependent co-origination. If you miss this point, you don’t understand Buddha’s teaching, no.
28:27
Next, page 96: the meaning of paramita.
What is meant by Paramita? It is a Sanskrit word which in our language means ‘arrived at the other shore,’ and is explained as ‘apart from production and extinction.’
So [paramita] means “arrived at the other shore,” which means “apart from production and extinction.” Apart from life and death, apart from origination and extinction. That is the meaning of [paramita] in Sanskrit. Here it says,
When one is attached to states of being, production and extinction arise like waves on water.
So attachment gives rise to waves. That is [the] dualistic world. That is the human world.
That is what is meant by ‘this shore.’
So this shore is the human world, the dualistic world, where we create waves by the vibration of consciousness.
To be apart from states of being, with no production or extinction, is to be like freely flowing water. That is what is meant by ‘the other shore.’
“The other shore” means to be like freely flowing water.
Like in Blue Cliff Record, explaining about [a] baby’s consciousness. Do you remember? The teacher says, “Baby’s consciousness is like throwing a ball into a stream of swift water.” So it’s touch it, and go; that is free flowing water. As soon as possible we should do it. This is our practice, this is [to] practice wisdom. That is called “the other shore.”
So the other shore is not far from us. The other shore is here in this shore. Because it is a practice. So when you practice, right in the middle of practice, there is the other shore.
Therefore it is called ‘Paramita’.
Param in Sanskrit means “gone beyond.” Ita means “she who has gone.” That is the meaning of ita, so paramita is “gone beyond the person who has gone.” In other words, gone beyond something which you have gone.
So if you arrived, you cannot stay there, you have to go beyond.
That’s why prajna paramita means wisdom beyond [the] wisdom which you have arrived. Because you already [have] wisdom, so you have already arrived there. But you have to go beyond.
It means, if you stay with wisdom which you have gone, I think [a] question comes up, like Cory said: what’s going on if we cut off the wisdom? But real wisdom must be something alive in our everyday life. So, wisdom beyond wisdom. That is real wisdom.
34:02
Okay, next, page 97… this is also talking about the meaning of paramita. This (previous) paragraph [talks about] the meaning of paramita in terms of emptiness of mark, and in the next paragraph on page 97, paramita is [talked about] in terms of emptiness of dharma:
“Good Knowing Advisors, deluded people recite with their mouths, but while they recite they live in falsehood and in error. When there is practice in every thought, that is the true nature. You should understand this dharma, which is the Prajna dharma; and cultivate this conduct, which is the Prajna conduct. Not to cultivate is to be a common person, but in a single thought of cultivation, you are equal to the Buddhas.”
From this point, this paramita is mentioned in terms of emptiness of dharma, because everything exists in the emptiness, so you have to always go beyond something which you have understood, which you have been. You have to go beyond. Always you have to move, [that] means constantly you should maintain actualization [or] flow, the flow of activities.
So that’s why here it says, “In a single thought of cultivation, there is wondrous passage to make your life buddha.” Buddha, or wise: the wise person. It’s not a concept.
That is [what is said] here. Is that okay?
Question: So Hojo-san, when he says, like, “In a single thought of cultivation,” he’s not talking about a concept?
Katagiri Roshi: Not concept. Cultivation means […] in this paragraph it [says], “Cultivate this conduct.” Cultivate this conduct means the conduct of wisdom. You have to cultivate, you have to nurture your doings of wisdom. In other words, you must behave as a person who has arrived at the other shore. Because we are buddha. So we exist in the realm of buddha-land, so we have to cultivate, we have to nurture. That is [the] conduct or activity of wisdom. That is cultivation.
So in the single moment of cultivation, in other words in the single moment of thought, “we have to cultivate wisdom” means we have to see the single thought, because each single thought has its own form, its own characteristics. So you cannot ignore. But each characteristic is based on no root, so emptiness. So you have to see it, but next, in terms of emptiness of dharma, you just touch [it], but the basic nature of existence is like swift water. So if you think it, it is just like throwing a ball into the stream of swift water. It goes.
Your thoughts [are] always coming up like that. If you do zazen, you can see [this]. This is our nature. But our consciousness always sits and then tries to stay with it. That is attachment.
And then, in terms of emptiness of emptiness, you have to maintain the flow of activity, the free-flowing water. You life must be your life, your thought must be like freely flowing water. And you just maintain that one. That’s why it’s very difficult to understand freedom or peace, because peace or freedom are just functioning, or flow of activities, of being like freely …
[Tape change.]
… So it seems to be easy, but it’s not so easy to maintain it forever. It’s very difficult. That’s why naturally we have to talk about it, we have to think deeply. That is [the] teaching. Without teaching, it’s very difficult to carry this simple practice.
42:15
Next, page 98:
“Good Knowing Advisors, common people are Buddhas and affliction is Bodhi. Past thoughts deluded are the thoughts of a common person. Future thoughts enlightened are the thoughts of a Buddha. Past thoughts attached to states of being are afflictions, and future thoughts separate from states of being are Bodhi.”
In this paragraph, I think paramita is mentioned in terms of bodhi. Bodhi is simultaneously delusion, delusion is bodhi, enlightenment. Life and death are nirvana, [and] nirvana is life and death, simultaneously. No gap between.
I always [say] life and death [and] nirvana, enlightenment, all exist at the same and one ground. That characteristic of same and one ground is very wondrous, mysterious. We don’t know what it is, how it is functioning. We don’t know, but it exists, and also it is the original nature of individual life. And then, the same and one ground is characterized by [causing] all living beings to exchange their own positions. Mountains, skies – we don’t know how mountain exchanges its own position with skies and the clouds, we don’t know, but simultaneously they do. That is called life of mountain. That’s why we are impressed by [the] life of mountains. That’s why we learn many lives of being through life of mountains.
So life of mountain is not the mountain we think, it is manifestation of buddhas and ancestors. Dogen Zenji [says this] in the “Sutra of the Mountains and Waters” in Shobogenzo. In the first sentence, he [says this …]: “The mountains and waters of the immediate present [are] the manifestation of buddhas and ancestors.”
So, “common people are Buddhas, and affliction is Bodhi. Past thoughts deluded are the thoughts of a common person. Future thoughts enlightened are the thoughts of a Buddha.” If you have deluded thoughts in previous moment, you are a common person. If you have enlightened thought in the following moment, you are an enlightened person. So there is no particular frame or label, because it is original nature, so-called wisdom, or emptiness. So if you do it, if you have a deluded thought right now – deluded thought means deluded behaviors, deluded doings – then you are a common person, you are a deluded person. And if you have enlightened behaviors, you are buddha.
So that’s why we have to throw the ball – in other words, you have to see your object, [and] next you have to deal with the object, like ball thrown into the stream of water. And then, we have to just maintain the flow activity. Freely flowing water; we have to maintain [this]. This is our behavior and doings. So at every moment, your life is alive. And that is most important.
That’s why Dogen Zenji says, “When you witness one side, the other side is obscure.” Just like ice and water, for example. When you see the ice, that’s it: ice, no water. So when you have a deluded thought, it’s deluded. So, no enlightened aspect of buddha. But ice doesn’t have its own substance, so next moment, if you have enlightened doings, you become buddha. So that is water. If you say, “see the water,” there is nothing, so-called ice. So ice: if you see ice, ice occupies the whole world.
That’s why in the chapter of Shobogenzo “One Bright Pearl,” Gensha Zen Master says, “The whole universe is one bright pearl.” That means, if you stand up straight, the whole world stands up straight. And also, when you come, the whole world comes; when you leave, the whole world leaves. I think you should taste this one. Otherwise, you cannot have perfect peace wherever you may be: in death, in life. When you die, you have to die; that’s it. No other world. [If] you have some slightly other world, well, you cannot die in peace. So if you die, the whole world dies with you. It’s just like ice and water.
That is [what] Dogen Zenji [always says] in Shobogenzo: life and death, or the whole world. You can read it [in] Genjokoan – Dogen Zenji [talks about it] in that one.
51:30
Page 100:
“Good Knowing Advisors, Maha Prajna Paramita is the most honored, the most supreme, the foremost. It does not stay; it does not come or go. All Buddhas of the three periods of time emerge from it. You should use great wisdom to destroy affliction, defilement, and the five skandhic heaps. With such cultivation as that you will certainly realize the Buddha Way, transforming the three poisons into morality, concentration, and wisdom.
This paragraph [talks about] the meaning of maha prajna paramita as a whole.
The first [sentence says], “Maha Prajna Paramita is the most honored, the most supreme, the foremost.” This is maha prajna paramita. It means, who are you? You are supreme. You are the most honored, the most supreme, the foremost. It means, you can forget you, forget yourself. That is wisdom – perfect wisdom. That’s why there is the practice of egolessness. Otherwise, we always attach; we are very selfish.
So that’s why the first [sentence] says, prajna paramita – your life – “is the most honored, the most supreme, the foremost.” That means you should forget yourself. That is to learn the self. Without this, you cannot master anything, you don’t understand anything.
Next it says, “It does not stay; it does not come or go.” “Not stay” means present, “not go” means past, and “not come” means future. So it means time. So if you forget yourself, then next, you can go beyond time.
Without this practice, you cannot understand anything. Naturally you do, but using your consciousness you have to taste this practice. That’s why here it says maha prajna paramita is not to stay, not to come, not to go. This is prajna; this is the nature of your life.
[It is not something.] If we say “your life is wisdom,” [then] we try to know, “What is wisdom?” That means you are attached to the present. And then we say, “We have prajna, but we don’t notice, that’s why by practice we have to know it.” This is [that] we attach to the future. Or we say, “In the past, we have prajna, we have it already, we are gifted with wisdom.” That means we already attach to the past. But it’s not real wisdom.
So wisdom means you should accept yourself right now, right here, and you should behave, you should do it. That means you have to forget yourself, then next, go beyond time.
That means, who are you? You come from past, you come from present, you are going to the future? “Yes.” But it is a part; that is a concept, you are living in the world of conceptualizations. But reality is something more than that. So you have to do it.
So that is, here it says next, “All Buddhas of the three periods of time emerge from it.” This is [that] then you can have, what would you say, spiritual communion among you and the universe. That [is the meaning of] “all buddhas of the three periods of time emerge from it.”
So if you do this, if you forget yourself and go beyond time, then you can taste wondrous energy between you and buddha, you and the universe. That is called kanno-doko in Japanese: spiritual communion among you and the universe. Not among you and some person in particular: you and the universe. That is, here it says, “all buddhas of the three periods of time emerge from it.” This is a Buddhistic expression, talking about great energy: feedback, in and out, between you and the universe. If you play the piano, naturally you can feel special particular energies between the concert and you, music and you. We don’t know what it is. But if you forget yourself, and go beyond time, naturally you experience this.
“You should use great wisdom to destroy affliction, defilement, …” Then, naturally, there is no affliction, defilement. Even though you go through the complicated procedure – rules and regulations, customs, habits, and your vibration of consciousness – you go through that stuff, but your body and mind [are never] confused, your body and mind just go. Not by your effort. Something. So you cannot stop it, finally.
So that is [where] here it says, “You should use great wisdom to destroy affliction and defilement.”
And then, how can you destroy afflictions and defilement? You cannot do it. You cannot destroy. If you behave according to the Buddha’s way, according to this way, then you can destroy naturally. Afflictions [and] defilement drop away, are struck aside, from the beginning. That is [the] shikantaza we do. In other words, you should put your body and mind in the form, and then, you become straight.
“With such cultivation as that you will certainly realize the Buddha Way, transforming the three poisons into morality, concentration, and wisdom.” Then, finally, this practice is to have three poisons. To have great greed – not the usual greed. Greed turns into the Precepts. Usually greed is to use our life and others’ life in order to satisfy individual desire. But great greed means to satisfy all sentient beings.
Then, naturally, you cannot ignore others, because others are exactly the quality of your life. So you have to share your life with all living beings. In order to share your life with all sentient beings, naturally there is discipline. Otherwise you cannot share. Even though you want to help somebody, there are certain forms, regulations, rules. You know, you cannot help anybody recklessly.
So very naturally, your great greed turns into the Precepts. That’s why it says here the three poisons are transformed into morality, concentration, and wisdom.